Bay behind an Arch

Hi all, Elsie here.

                                  So a bit back I touched on bay windows but this time I would like to dive a bit further into this lovely little architectural oddity that you don’t see very often. Looks good I know but it can cause some difficulties when you want to dress it.

The Bay Window sat behind an arch.

                                Some people get quite excited when they sees these lovely windows. They often come with additional plaster detail, sometimes sash windows and occasionally stained glass.  On first inspection they appear lovely but then we have to get practical. Warmth, privacy, functionality and oh you don’t want to hide any of the bits you like about the window.

More often than not one or more compromises have to be made for a dressing to work in these beauties for one reason or another. I have never seen two the same, each one is individual and has its own little quirks so each one has to be attacked differently. However I can go through some of the common issues that may arise to help you along the way.

clearview-secondary-glazing-bay-window

This shows clearly a couple of issues that this style of window come with.

  • Sill extending further than bay recess.
  • Window frame up to back edge of arch.
  • Deep sill.
  • Picture rail within recess.
  • Arched fascia wall onto ceiling.

 

First lets tackle the sill shall we ?

The sill (especially in the image above) coupled with the arched section of wall onto ceiling makes it infeasible to have a full length curtain within the bay.  This is not always the case, in some situations there is a very narrow sill or none at all.                                                             A face fixed pelmet enables under-slung tracking so that pinch pleats can be used to stack as far back as possible. This however may not be preferable if a pelmet ends up covering stained glass that you want to remain on view (depth permitting).

If a pelmet is undesirable then a plastic tracking system can be used (Sologlyde) I find is the best (my preferred option).

Solo-glyde

The downside is only pencil pleat can really be used with this rail, giving a more “casual” look and bulky when open. This heading will encroach further onto the glass at the sides than pinch. Sologlyde is best I feel for pencil due to the style of hook. This hook keeps the heading as neat as can be and stops it tipping forward due to it being on the fascia of the rail and not under-slung.

In this type of bay pelmet returns may also be tricky depending on window frame positioning etc. The most narrow style of pelmet is a “Lath” where the pinch is on view under the pelmet  and is traditionally put onto a Silvo metal rail. Pre bent made to measure rails can also be used but are a more costly option over Silvo. Silent Gliss and Evans are great companies to look at for made to measure rails.

silvo-curtain-rail-b

Silvo rail

Pelmets can help you clear protruding window frames.

It is also possible to attach tracking systems to some window frames (style depending).

All things like picture rails and cove can effect positioning of any fittings so therefore must be taken into account.

“Gapping” can occur with curtains and blinds. Curtains can sometimes be hooked onto the wall on a return (depending on space) but this is not the case with blinds. If there is not a return wall to block it, there will be gaps on the outside edges of the extreme right and left blinds. This is due to the projection of the blind rails coupled with the acute angel of the arch coming across. This may cause you to be able to see out the window even when blind is down.

You can combat “gapping” or at least reduce it by having dress or functional curtains across the front of the arch. These can be on poles, rails, under pelmets depending on space allowance and / or individual preference.

It may be that dressing the front (across the arch) and staying out of the recess completely is a preferred course of action. Poles are sometimes possible, Silent Gliss Metroploes are great in limited space and can allow for wave as well as Pinch pleat headings. You can also shape a pelmet to follow the arch, therefore retaining the shape even when the curtains are closed. This can make a lovely feature. You do lose the bay when the curtains are closed however.

bay-window-curtain-rails

There are even possibilities for a curtain treatment to close across the bay but to sit directly behind the arch, which looks wonderful if there is an architectural feature on the arch itself.

There are so many variations on this style window. They must all be approached from a technical aspect first due to their many varying complexities. Only then can a designer begin to dress them in stylish and sympathetic way.

 

I hope this has been a helpful guide to starting you on your way to dressing what is a lovely architectural feature. I would recommend that if you have one of these windows that you seek guidance that is specific to your window. You can go to http://www.facebook.com/whitewolfeint for help or message me here?

As time goes by I may add more examples of this wonderful window dressed. Keep your eyes peeled ?

Thank you for reading .

Kind Regards

Elsie Wolfe

 

Size is everything. (How to measure for curtains).

Hi All Elsie here.

OK sizing a curtain or blind.

Straight forward I hear you cry. Well if that is the case why do so many people get it wrong?

I have had clients insist that their measurements were precise only to end up with a useless curtain or blind. Lets focus on curtains.

With a few simple pointers I can help you reduce if no eliminate the possibility for errors.

1. GET YOUR SIZES RIGHT.

Obvious, I know but so many people falter at this first step making everything else you do useless.

Fat Max Tape Measure

Fat Max Tape Measure

tape-with-markings-small

Choose a good sturdy tape measure I find Fat Max to be the best it extends the longest before buckling.

Pick a measurement and stick with it.

Inches at top cm’s at bottom. I always went with inches because I measured big windows so inches were easier to read. If you have a digital great but you will still need a tape measure digital ones will only measure surface to surface so a tape measure covers everything else.

By not jumping from imperial to metric and back again you reduce your chances of miss reading the tape measure.

2. DRAW YOU SIZES

Tip = I always start with the width.

When I say this I mean do not list them.

Draw a simple picture of your window with arrows showing where you are measuring and fill in the sizes on the diagram. This way you reduce the likelihood of you mixing up the sizes.

This diagram gives you an idea.

measure01

You do this at the beginning and everything else has a higher chance of going right.

Once you have these sizes you then need the dimensions of the pole or rail you are fitting. They are all different.

1. POLE

a. Size of backplate of pole

b.Top of backplate on wall to bottom of ring when on pole.

c.Pole diameter.

d.Ring size.

Make sure that the pole will fit into the gap at the top of the window, still allowing  the pole to lift into the brackets and also for the curtain to be above the top of the window reveal when hung on the pole. as mentioned in my other blog.

The top of the curtain (unless there is an upstand) should sit at the base of the rings (eyelets should not be visible).

Pinch pleat curtains hung correctly.

Pinch pleat curtains hung correctly.

Now you can either calculate the drop of your curtain using the sizes measured allowing for the position of the top of the curtain when hung or fit the pole and measure from base of ring to where you want the curtain to end.

REMEMBER to make an allowance for off the floor if having full length. Alternatively add length on for pooling or kick.

If your curtains are eyelets the top of the pole position must be used then add an upstand this can vary slightly depending on size of ring. The bigger the ring the bigger the upstand so the curtain remains balanced. I allow a min of 2″ unless there is a restriction.

Eyelet upstand

Obviously the sizes as I have already said vary depending on the item you are hanging curtains on to.

The following rails are the everyday affordable ones I use.

Ultra-Glide-f-c-2Ultra-glyde

Nylon-Glyde Nylon-glyde

Silvo rail

Silvo rail

Solo-glyde

Solo-glyde

Each are good affordable rails used in the right space and with the correct weight of curtain.

Sometimes a specialist rail is required or a client requires a higher specification. I strongly recommend Silent Gliss. I have also used Evans as a middle costing but good quality.

Silent Gliss rails I have used and very happy with 1082, 3982, 3841, 1280,1090,1080 metropole and metroflat. both companies have electric systems that are excellent but the customer service and technical support of Silent Gliss are second to none.

Please note that wave headed curtains can be tricky to size and need to be done so with the tape in front of you, or ideally by a professional. I would also recommend this practice for any tape to give you the position of the curtain when on the eyelet and hook I have always done this to give me an extremely precise measurement.

3840W-500x500

Most tapes are set down slightly from the top 1/8th to 1/4″ aprox. This varies with the manufacturer.

Whilst all of the above is good handy info I do recommend using the person who is making your curtains to measure. They are then fully responsible for the curtains fitting and working correctly and are also responsible for any mistakes. Your measurements, your responsibility. So double check everything.

Good luck

E.D.Wolfe

Silent Gliss =              http://www.silentgliss.co.uk/

Swish =                        http://www.swish.co.uk/

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Bay Windows 101

A BAY WINDOW!!!!

Your heart sinks at the thought of dressing this beautiful architectural feature.

Even thought they have been around since the medieval times they became popularised in the Victorian era and are still used today even in modern architecture.

Medieval Bay Window

Medieval Bay Window

Victorian Bay Window

Victorian Bay Window

Modern Bay Window

Modern Bay Window

There are several types of bay window.

1. Splay bay. As the first two that are 135 degrees aprox.  These are generally in three panes.

2. Multiple Splay. Several panes.

3. Box Bay .90 degrees.

4.Curved Bay / Bow.

5.Half Box.

6.Half splay.

7. Triangular

All come with slight variances, some have additional wall sections on the side some do not. Some have sills that come out of the bay, some do not. Some bays have a section of wall between each window referred to as a mullion.

Plan view with and without walls.

Plan view with and without walls.

C shows the way a bay can end on its extreme end left and a different way on the right. See the additional wall piece.

A bay either has its own ceiling that drops down into the bay from the main ceiling in the room , or it shares its ceiling with the room.

Face view 1

This bay has its own ceiling. Face view 1.

Face view 2

This bay shares its ceiling with the room. Face view 2

The profile of these bays can also vary quite a bit. See ……….

Profile Bay 1

Profile Bay 1. Own ceiling no cove.

Profile Bay 2

Profile Bay 2 .Shares ceiling and has cove.

Profile Bay 3

Profile Bay 3. No cove and shares its ceiling.

Profile Bay 4

Profile Bay 4. No cove,shares ceiling, frame of window projects.

Profile Bay 5

Profile Bay 5. Frame projects, cove. ceiling.

With number five it can be quite tricky with only a small gap between window and cove but sometimes you are lucky and can fit a pelmet board in the gap and support the board with a T bracket fixed to the face of the top of the window frame. Additional support can be given where curtain will be heaviest at sides using an L bracket after the window frame.

Quite a few I know, and there are more but these just give you an idea.

All These have to be tackled differently and for this reason I recommend that a professional is used to advise and measure them. They are almost like human beings, they have to be treated as individuals and approached as such.

If you are going to attempt to measure your bay you will need the following.

  • Strong tape measure (I recommend a FAT MAX)
  • Pad with a simple line diagram on as above to mark sizes on with (I would not recomend measuring without a diagram, sizes can and do get mixed up if this is done in my experience)
  • Pen / pencil
  • Angle measurer (I use one that was sent to me by Silent Gliss) they are fab. http://www.silentgliss.co.uk

Take your time!!!! Measure in only one unit. Inches or cm’s do not mix.

  • Be aware of any picture rails and their positions in relation to everything else.
  • Take note of the sill and picture rail projections that may stop you having long curtains.
  • Look at the casement of the window and if it projects as well as the handles.
  • You cannot got across the front of a bay with a pole if it does not have its own ceiling. See Face 2 unlike Face 1.
  • Look at how much space there is for a bracket and if there is coving giving you space to lift the pole into the brackets when in position.
  • Measure all broken up drops (ceiling to window, window top to sill etc)
  • Measure overall drop and see if the broken up sizes add approx up to the whole. (I normally give an allowance of 1/4 “. Any more and I double check sizes).
  • When measuring top of sill to floor measure floor up it is easier, put you eye in line with top of sill to get the size off the tape measure. It is far more accurate to measure this way.

Bow windows are very different.

Plan view of simple Bow windows.

Plan view of simple Bow windows.

If you want a pole in the bow you need to make a template of the bow using paper, measure in to where rail is required and mark on paper. Double check vertical position with a laser measure. This whole template will then need to be sent to the people making the pole. This type of measure is needed if there is a channel recess in the ceiling .

Plan view of Bow channel.

Plan view of Bow channel.

If there is no channel the following measure can be done.

Measure a bow plan view.

Measure a bow plan view.

A= Soft length measure.

B= Evenly spaced back to front measurements.

C= Wall to wall size across bow front.

I must stress again that I would recommend a professional to measure these windows, mistakes can be costly. 

The results can be wonderful and interesting when measured correctly.

Roman Blinds in a bay

Valance and curtains in bay.

An Uber Interiors Design Valance and curtains in bay.

https://www.uber.com

IMG_1453

Half bay pelmet and blinds.

Half bay pelmet and blinds.

Pole in bay

Metropole in bay

We can go on and on. variety is the spice of life.

Please post any questions or photos you have about bay windows and I will respond asap.

THIS BLOG claims no credit for any images posted on this site unless otherwise noted. Images on this blog are copyright to its respectful owners. If there is an image appearing on this blog that belongs to you and do not wish for it appear on this site, please E-mail with a link to said image and it will be promptly removed.